Transcript: Mr. Goolam Hoosen Kolia Interviewed by Zakiyyah Kolia

Biographical Data:


Name: Goolam Hoosen

Surname: Kolia

Date of Birth: 18 March 1950

Age: 57

Address: 7993 Capricorn Ave
Lenasia
Ext 9

Telephone No: (011) 8542394

Cell Phone No: 084 4977789

E-mail Address: koliagh@hotmail.com

Qualifications: Matric

Occupation: Accountant

Organization Involvement: SAHUC

Device used: Cell phone

ZK: Assalamualaykum…this is Zakiyyah Kolia…I am interviewing Mr. Goolam Hoosen Kolia who is going to tell us about the apartheid era.
Tell us something about yourself – your childhood and how you got involved in politics or political resistance.

GHK: …I was born in Klip town and…we used to live near squatter camps and our homes were not that elaborate, it was just the basic brick structure and…I remember we were not very well off but we used to play bare feet and you know in the rain and all that so it was quite fun during that time…and I remember that…there was a church next to us, about 100 meters away and there was a house also there. I still remember vaguely…these, all these elderly people with their hats and overcoats and we were wondering what they were doing all the time. We found out afterwards that they were actually…preparing…the freedom charter and it’s quite exciting to know we were playing around that time while the freedom charter was being prepared or signed.

ZK: What was the most significant event which you can recall during your time as an apartheid activist?

GHK: What I can recall is…at the time, this was now in the 70’s about 1976, 77…when…the unrest started but we all got together and we were marching in Lenasia and it was a peaceful march, it was up to a thousand people, there were religious leaders, elderly people,…mothers, aunties, sisters everybody was there and they all participated in this march we were altogether there because we wanted to show…our concern of the brutality of the apartheid system and as we were walking down the street then we were confronted with these caspers which blocked the way and all these cops were lined up there ready with their guns and that...and the imam of the…Hafez Noorbhai who was in the lead stopped the crowd and then…told them to hold on for a while because we couldn’t move forward, the caspers were there and this policeman, big Afrikaner guy, he knew there were over a thousand people and he says “Well I am going to give you 5 minutes in which to disperse or else I’m going to start shooting” and he knew it was impossible to disperse in 5 minutes and if he had only left the crowd they would have automatically dispersed because it was a peaceful process. We just wanted to make our voices heard and then in 5 minutes they started shooting tear gas and this is when all hell broke loose and then the youngsters also started pelting the policemen and they started burning cars and all that, especially the police cars. Unfortunately the media then blamed the crowd where as it was the police that instigated and started…the trouble!

ZK: Did you ever have a run in with the law at the time?


GHK: Yes, there was a time when...I was involved with the Al-Qalam which was a Muslim newspaper…I used to hand out Al-Qalams and one of the issues where we wrote against communism and against the apartheid system…where I was then called in by the police at the Protea Police Station and that was the notorious police station where they used to take people and interrogate them. They used to take the students there, to interrogate them and I was taken there and to one of the officers and I could see all these students lined up in the passage but…and they had to face the wall, so I came in there and then they had this big white chap standing in one of the officers and he tried to play the nice guy and the colored chaps that were there, they were sort of the bad guys, they used to come and hit you on the back and smack you and all that and then the white chap would say “no, no, no leave him alone” you know… “He’s okay” “don’t hit him” and that. All the time the white chap wanted to play nice guy so you could go to him and tell him all the stories and spy on others but he didn’t know we knew these tricks. We didn’t tell about anybody and afterwards they wanted to know why I’m giving these Al-Qalams and why I’m writing…why is this newspaper writing against the apartheid system and against communism and so I explained to them that as Muslims we have our own system and we are writing against this because we do not agree with any of these systems and then afterwards they let me go.

ZK: And who was the editor of the Al-Qalam?

GHK: The editor of the Al-Qalam at that time, there were many editors. I can recall I think it was Abdullah Osman at that time. There was…a chap by the name of Naeem Jeena, Yusuf Nazeer was also on the Al-Qalam, Joe Nazeer, he was also editor and there was somebody from Cape Town also. There were many other editors…for the Al-Qalam. It changed every 2 years or so.

ZK: What was your attitude like towards policies after those run-ins or bad experiences?

GHK: I realized with the, that these policies of the apartheid system was very brutal and inhumane and this made me very, this upset me greatly because…coming…according to what we are taught as Muslims where everybody’s equal…and even though the Qur’an says that we are created into nations and tribes so that we can know each other and that we can understand each other and not that we must despise each other and with this in mind I was involved even in the Muslim Youth Movement where we propagated all of these things and we were only talking of Qur’an and Sunnah…and…trying to show that there is an alternative view. That everybody’s created equal in front of…God and why is it that these…attitudes and policies are like that and we tried our own way to do something to try and change it.

ZK: do you still have contact with any of your fellow activists that may be in the government at the moment and do you keep in touch with them?

GHK: I…I always see them on TV. Now and then I keep in touch with them. There are many people involved there…for example…the person who was with us also in the Muslim Youth Movement was Ibrahim Rasool, Imam Solomon…he was also with the movement and there were many others and the person we’re not in touch personally but at least…I know about them, enquire about them. There are many outside of parliament but we I always keep in touch with them.

ZK: Were you ever arrested or detained?

GHK: No I was just, I was not detained, I was just called in for questioning and that was the one which I related at the Protea Police Station.

ZK: Were you an MK i.e. a member of the Military wing of the ANC at the time?

GHK: No I was not with the MK although, what we were basically involved in was more on the intellectual side but not with MK or any of the arm struggle.

ZK: Did you feel the efforts of your struggle were in vain?

GHK: There are times now where I feel that the efforts of our struggle is becoming…in vain because of the way that things are, going. The government is dragging its feet. We’ve got the money, we’ve got good policies but somehow they can’t seem to sort out in a quick span of time…to bring everybody up to a certain level as far as basic housing, to improve the lives of everybody. After so many years of democracy and freedom that by now we shouldn’t see any shacks and this is what is really, what is making me become more despondent.

ZK: How did you feel about those in power at the time i.e. what did you think of white supremacy at the time?

GHK: To me I just thought that they were really foolish and stupid because…although there were some whites…who didn’t even realize and they lived through apartheid. These were ordinary people that we used to meet and when we asked them they said no you people have the vote because of the tricamoral system. When they meet you, as human beings we have a nice discussion, we joked everything but when it came to the law that was the administration which was actually implementing all of this. Many times the ordinary whites didn’t even realize what we were going through…we would discuss things and they wondered why like for example it was voting for them and they would come to some of us and say “Abraham gaan jy nie vote nie?” aren’t you going to vote? But they didn’t even realize we didn’t have the vote. So many of them were also hoodwinked and…they just went with the system. Unfortunately they did not question this…the people in administration and they just went along with it.

ZK: How did you react to the many different laws e.g. the pass law, group areas act etc?

GHK: What we did with the pass law and the group areas act, we used to work around it. For example the pass laws they didn’t allow any maids to come into the area unless they had passes, they had the…restrictions on them but we used to quietly hire them…as long as they get employment. We needed the maids and that,…than if the police would come we use to hide them away and as far as the group areas act is concerned…we were not allowed to open businesses in white areas but we used to work around it. We used find some these whites who didn’t even know what was happening, they thought that there was freedom for everybody, we used to discuss and as human beings we used to get along well…and what used to happen is then they would volunteer to become our nominees and we used to run the businesses in white areas under the nominees and we used to tell them that we working for the white person and the paperwork, our accountants were very skilled. They used to make sure that all the paperwork shows that it is a white business, actually it was an Indian owned and the police couldn’t even catch us out.

ZK: Did you ever hear or see a neck lacing i.e. those people who spied on the apartheid state were burnt alive by a tyre placed over them?

GHK: No I did not see one, only what we saw on TV…although we were very close to, we were in crowds, many times we were in the crowds but we didn’t witness any of that.

ZK: What message would you like to share with the people of South Africa today?

GHK: What I would like to say is that I am very optimistic about South Africa…whenever I read the…when I sing the national anthem it is actually a prayer and it’s a very good prayer and if only we can follow what is in the national anthem also and I just feel that…when my eyes feels like tearing every time I read the national anthem then I feel sorry for the people that haven’t got the basic amenities. We should share with each other, we as Indians…we’ve got the skills and we must try and share with everybody, mentor them and tutor them and see what we can do but this country is a great country, we must make sure it works, we must just make sure that it mustn’t get derailed in any way and not let all the negativities get us down. We do get despondent at times but we must just hang in there and hopefully the things will sort out.

ZK: We don’t see i.e. in our communities, Indians and Muslims in particular involved in politics and the civil service as they should be. Therefore, what are your feelings about this and is there any advice you would like to share regarding this?

GHK: Yes this is very disappointing…there are Indians and there are Muslims involved in politics but not so many. Unfortunately as Muslims we’ve kept aloof of this because of our Islamic systems and we feel we have the best system yet we are not expanding this to the other communities…as I said earlier that…for example we see everybody’s equal we know the laws against alcohol, we know the laws against drug abuse. We have a very good system about cleanliness about…prayer about everything else but we are not stretching this to the other communities and this is unfortunate. Even in the administration there are many people, many Indians…in fact a lot who are skilled who can get into the administration, participate in there, help to mentor and tutor the people, the less privilege and make sure that the things work out well and we don’t sit back and complain so in other words we have to participate, get involved and this should come from the top, from the ulama, the learned people, the educationist and the people out there must make sure that they participate in all these activities.

ZK: Finally – are you hopeful of South Africa today?

GHK: Yes I’m very hopeful. We got a great country, we’ve got good laws, we’ve got cheques and balances…things will come right we just got to; we’ve got enough money in the country. We’ve got many of the systems that are working well although it’s going very slowly, if we can just speed up the process and I think we’ll become a very great country. Thank you

ZK: Thank you Mr. Kolia for your time, Assalamualaykum.